Of course this is utter ridiculousness, but, that severely flawed logic seems to be what is prevailing in our culture today. This topic, which I usually just tend to leave alone, is overpowering the news, blogs, and culture lately (and is certainly nothing new under the sun, gay’s have been trying to justify their actions for millennia, see Why is Being Gay a Sin? for a civil discussion, Does Romans 1:26 Condemn Lesbians? for the absurd justification, and then an honest “Christian Perspective”, not forgetting to throw in Anne Rice who recently “quit” Christianity on Facebook [comments in pdf,] with Mark Driscoll’s response for the Washington Post, because she didn’t want to be “anti-gay anymore”, and the countless trash talk about Proposition 8 in California).
With Proposition 8 being overturned by the California courts, this seems destined for the Supreme Court (where they probably don’t want to deal with it either). The Boston Globe did a huge photo spread called Same Sex Marriage about a week ago and the responses to that article show why this, unfortunately, is THE topic of our day for Christians and the church. This discussion really wasn’t intended to launch into whether being gay is a sin or not, but to show the absurd arguments on both sides, which lack any careful thought.
This comment below is typical when reading trash talk on the news sites, and was made by someone who used the title “I Feel Drawn Towards Christianity, But I’m Gay”, which then received very complimentary responses, with little question for the lifestyle itself, or with sound argument for or against Christians and the homosexual lifestyle, and what scripture has to say about it’s effects and consequences.
I was surprised in a few ways, one by how openly acceptable the Christian responses were to this person. Not that they were accepting of the person, that’s great, but accepting of all aspects of the persons lifestyle, with not much need for contemplation (although some did suggest the person generically seek God’s direction). The other surprise was how utterly weak the reasoning and arguments were that were used on both sides.
I am certainly no expert on this topic whatsoever, and there are many who can soundly argue, on both sides, but those seem to be few and far between. No gay person I talk to (and many Christians for that matter) can give a sound theological argument, backed and based on scripture (since this person “feels drawn to Christianity”). The majority of the arguments put forth are emotional arguments, which are impossible to argue against in a rational manner. This is the argument that was given in this particular case:
The Bible also condemns divorce, the eating of pork and shrimp, and says that men shouldn’t sit on the same chairs as women who are menstruating.
The argument seems to lack even a surface level study of scripture, but most Christians responded with nothing other than an emotional response. As with much of Scripture in our culture today, these verses are taken so much out of context for the use of the argument for a homosexual lifestyle I am surprised they were made? I am not being mean or hateful in spirit here, but seriously, if you are gay, this is your argument?
- The Bible condemns the eating of pork.
- We eat pork today.
- Therefore, homosexuality is ok in the sight of the Lord.
There are so many things that could be addressed but at the basic level, in Mark 7:18-19 Jesus declared all foods to be clean, he didn’t declare all forms of sex to be clean. A better argument that perhaps shows a little more clearly why scripture says that the homosexual lifestyle is sinful in God’s eyes (and there are many things that are actually still seen as sinful in God’s eyes today, besides homosexuality), would be:
Point 1 on Sin:
- The Bible says sin is detestable in God’s eye’s.
- Therefore any continuous sinful act is not honoring to God.
Point 2 on Marriage:
- The Bible defines sex outside of marriage as sin.
- The Bible defines marriage as a monogamous union between a man and a woman.
- Therefore any nonrepentant sexual relationship of any kind outside marriage is sin in God’s eyes.
- Therefore a nonrepentant homosexual lifestyle is sin.
- Therefore a nonrepentant adulterous relationship is sin.
- Therefore any sexual relationship before marriage is sin.
I rarely see those “hateful” Christians everyone seems to refer to today that will acknowledge that the last three are equally sin, and equally condemned by scripture, but, that doesn’t mean that either is less or more acceptable to God as a way to live that honor’s God. I do not say that in a hateful manner but in an examination of scripture. I also recognize that many, or most, “gay Christians” will take issues with my argument above and defend it away in some manner. The statements above are all based on scripture and can all be backed theologically with sound argument.
Our culture as a whole is continually refusing to see objective truths in the Bible today. Whether we like to ignore them in our day or not, they still exist, there are still things that God says are good, and those things God says are bad, we just seem to have so much knowledge in everything that we have no knowledge in the actual truth anymore.
Posts Related to This Topic:
This is my first post for the Blogger Small Group so I hope this is the format as intended for the group. I too am quite fascinated with the scripture reading for this week, chosen to be James, Chapter 2. My wife and I even discussed part of this chapter without even knowing it on the way home from our service on Sunday a few days ago, then I read it.
Great choice for this week, and I am already looking forward to the next week. If you would like to join in just visit the link above from Vagabond.
From the Book of James, Chapter 2
I made the mistake of reading Vagabond’s well thought interpretation and post on James 2 first, I think next time I will write mine out in full, then read everyone else’s. His point was on the basis of discrimination we as Christians have against the homosexual lifestyle. Very interesting comments, never equated these verses to homosexuality but that’s what makes these groups great, so many different opinions makes you think again.
To read my comments rant on his post, go read Blogger Small Group and you will see mine and everyone else’s comments from the Small Group on James 2.
This chapter was broken up into two pieces, The Sin of Partiality and Faith and Works (always a favorite topic among us Believers, huh). I will just take them in two sections. Some I see go verse by verse, I may do that at some point but I like a contextual look sometimes.
The Sin of Partiality
Chapter 2:1-13 This is one of those “sins” we often forget, I think. It is a natural process we try to go through (to be non-partial that is), of choosing who we think is worthy and not worthy. I think in our time, two distinct groups comes to mind. The homeless and family.
With these two groups as the focus, I think the next section fits right in, and it is no coincidence (to me) that the two groups here, are also the focus of the next section. How many times do we as Believers come across the poor, or the homeless type (I say type here because we have drifters around our cities but not many homeless) and we turn a deaf ear to them.
Homeless. I must have a bulls eye on my head because sometimes I feel like I can rarely go to a gas station without being approached by someone asking for money. It isn’t like I am dressed like some high falootin’ business man, I am usually in a t-shirt and jeans. But, I have to stop and think. How many other times have I talked to the person getting gas in the pump across the way, or someone inside getting a drink?
Family. How about family members. This one is a hard one because it hits home I think, but how often do we see the effects of a home that shows partiality to one sibling or another? I think it has been well documented that this sin has a great effect on the later lives of the ones involved in this type of sin, in the home.
We should not show partiality or favoritism to any group or people. If we talk someone at the gas station, we should be blind to their financial situation, and we certainly shouldn’t show favoritism at home.
Faith and Works
This next section is one of my favorites, and one that is used by churches to get people to do something. The key verse in this section to me is verses 24-26, and I love the way the chapter ends.
24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
The body without the Spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. What a powerful statement. It is important in how we live this life and what we do.
This is probably one of the most mis-interpreted scriptures as well, at least I hear it taken out of context quite often. What I think this verse IS NOT saying is that we are saved by our works. NO. Many non-believers think you can do good in this life and that will get you to heaven. Wrong. If we read the scripture, it is not by works along. Christ must be involved.
I think this section goes right along with the previous section because it talks about the poor, and the family.
v. 15-16 this clearly shows us that a person in need should have his basic needs met first. How can we offer up the Truth if the person is hungry. The less fortunate of our world, goes right back to the first section on partiality.
v. 21 this is the family section… Abraham was doing an unbelievable work of faith
Ok, so there is my run through on James chapter 2. Let me here your comments below and don’t forget to link back here if you have a comment you would like to share. Looking forward to next week as well.
